Apple II RoundTable – Lance Taylor-Warren


Apple II RoundTable
Real Time Conference Transcript

Guest    :   Lance Taylor-Warren
         :   L & L Productions
Date     :   November 22, 1988
Copyright (C) 1988 GEnie All rights reserved
<[Tyler] A2.TYLER> I would like to introduce our guest for tonight. Lance Taylor-Warren is the chief executive officer of L & L Productions. They are best known for their ever popular GBBS Pro bulletin board system which includes its own programming language, ACOS BASIC. But, Lance has some other topics that I am sure he will also talk about tonight. So, without further delay, I would like to welcome Lance to the RTC and ask him to make an opening statement. 

<[Lance] L.L.PROD> Thank you Tyler. As most of you know, our Company publishes the BBS Program called GBBS Pro originally written by Greg Schaefer. We took over GBBS in Nov. '86 and have successfully marketed and supported it. We are now currently working on a new BBS Program called MultiPro and it is slated for a January '89 release. It is our biggest endeavor yet, multi-line, terminal emulation, protocol support. I would like to take this evening to talk about/answer any questions about anything related to L&L, GBBS Pro, MultiPro or the new Network for MultiPro called ProLink. 

<[Ron] MICOL.SYSTEM> BBS software is famous for being pirated, especially GBBS Pro. There are, in fact, many pirate versions running in my city, and I'm sure it's the same throughout the rest of North America. What plans do you have to take care of the illegal use of your BBS software? 

<[Lance] L.L.PROD> Ron, yes piracy is a BIG problem in the BBS world (Bob can attest to this), and L&L Productions cares very much about this problem, but one must realize that we cannot do it alone. 

<[Bob] PROTREE> Yes, I certainly can attest to that. 

<[Lance] L.L.PROD> If no one buys software, there will not be any reason to write new software, so we place the responsibility of piracy on the people that buy the software then give it to their friends. This will not be tolerated in MultiPro (not much could be done with GBBS, due to my predecessors attitude). We will take legal action against anyone giving out copies of MultiPro and DO take action against GBBS BBSs that we are informed about. But, to really deal with this issue, it's going to take the combined efforts of all BBS Software authors. Liddiard & Associates is my Canadian Distributor and has the authority to take down BBSs in Canada. 

<[Ron] MICOL.SYSTEM> Good to hear that. I agree. I know on two other 68000 based computer's whose names both start with the letter A, but which I won't mention, there exists BBS software that can handle many users at the same time on one machine. Will Multi Pro be able to do this? Also, will it be GS-Specific? If not, do you have any plans for GS-Specific software? 

<[Lance] L.L.PROD> Ron, we are working on some ideas for multi-line in one machine, but presently it takes one CPU for each line. MultiPro is not GS specific (we are thinking about a GS version of ACOS though). 

<[Tyler] A2.TYLER> That is good to hear. 

<[Gary] G.D.EDWARDS> I was wondering if there was place I could see and buy GBBS mods, I'm just now getting into the programming, and would like to see what others have done. 

<[Lance] L.L.PROD> Gary, there is currently two companies making mods for GBBS, P+ and Firstword. P+ has the most and their BBS is 214-424-2001. They have them all running on their system for look sees. 

<[Gary] G.D.EDWARDS> Is there anywhere I can obtain a complete listing of the variables used in GBBS Pro, the manual doesn't list them all. 

<[Lance] L.L.PROD> Gary, most of the common variables are listed; but no, there is not a list of all. It would be to hard to list every single one. 

<[Gary] G.D.EDWARDS> I imagine so, thanks for the answers. 

<[Parik] P.RAO> You can also look around for a program that lists all variables in a segment, and then just scan each of the segments and print the variables. 

<[Lance] L.L.PROD> That program only list the variables currently used. 

<[Mike] TBC> What I usually do is make all variables in a .s file in UC. That makes it easier to do searches. But of course, this isn't always convenient. 

<[ Eric ] A2PRO.ERIC> I think that the XREF file that Parik and Lance are talking about is available in A2PRO's library. I do know we've got a couple of GBBS Pro utilities. 

<[Todd] T.LARASON> There's a segment out there somewhere called VARIABLE.S that will scan a .s file for the variable names. 

<[Parik] P.RAO> Lance, I'm just curious what happened to the other line on L&L? The one people paid $10 for? Also, do you plan on beta-testing MultiPro? Time is getting short, and what's this about paying $50 for docs on writing overlays? 

<[Lance] L.L.PROD> Parik, L&L is two lines (early beta test), so the other line was absorbed. Yes, we are already beta testing MultiPro. (I don't have Leaks in my beta network!) There will be a fee for the REAL TECH information on MultiPro (this will discourage piracy of the information). 

<[Mike] TBC> Does that $50 get us source code, as in assembly? 

<[Lance] L.L.PROD> The $50 is not the price, and no, just the technical information. The source code will not be available. (I'm not crazy!) 

<[ Eric ] A2PRO.ERIC> Darn! 

<[Lance] L.L.PROD> The reason for the fee for the tech info is that any overlay written, will be sold and the author will get his money back if enough sell. 

<[ Shem ] A2.CHET> Will you continue to sell GBBS Pro when MultiPro comes out? How will current third-party GBBS Pro software be affected by MultiPro? Will it run? 

<[Lance] L.L.PROD> Chet, yes we will still have GBBS Pro available for those that can't run MultiPro (128 K, 65C02, no II+'s). All modules will have to be reworked somewhat, some more then others. 

<[Todd] T.LARASON> When you say "Overlay", do you mean the MultiPro equivalent of a USE file or of a .S file? 

<[Lance] L.L.PROD> Overlays are the equivalent of USE files in GBBS only MUCH, MUCH more powerful. 

<[Todd] T.LARASON> How much memory will be available for programming and variables? 

<[Lance] L.L.PROD> MultiPro has a 30 K editor, so segments can be edited without leaving ACOS. The full screen editor would be required for this. 10 K of variables and 24 K (interpreted) for segment. 

<[Todd] T.LARASON> What are the major differences in GBBS ACOS and MultiPro ACOS, and is there something like PROSCRN built in? 

<[Lance] L.L.PROD> About the only thing they have in common is the look of the segments. MP ACOS is almost a rewrite. Yes, MP ACOS has something like PROSCRN built in, only done correctly. It allows PT Special Music also. 

<[Todd] T.LARASON> Will the music be played all the time or only when info(2)=0 (or the equivalent)? 

<[Lance] L.L.PROD> I think it is all the time, but that could be changed if SYSOPs don't like it. 

<[Mike] TBC> Or their wives. 

<[Brian] B.OUTZEN> First, is MultiPro a different program from GBBS Pro v 1.4 or is 1.4 going to be a new update of GBBS Pro? 

<[Lance] L.L.PROD> Brian, thank you for asking. MultiPro is what everyone has been calling 1.4, but yes, there will be an updated GBBS Pro, called 1.4, so they are two different programs. 

<[Brian] B.OUTZEN> As far as transfer protocol goes, what will be in MultiPro? 

<[Lance] L.L.PROD> Stock MultiPro will have only XMODEM. The enhanced SuperTAC (Andy is still trying to think of a new name) will have all of them, X, Y, ZMODEM, YMODEM-G, SeaLink, MegaLink and anything else that comes down the pipe. 

<[Brian] B.OUTZEN> This may sound stupid, but will this also include Punter? (I run 1.3 right now and my area is mostly Commodore users; for some odd reason I can up and download with a Commodore but they can't up or download with my system. I currently am using EFTS Pro from Peripherals +.) 

<[Lance] L.L.PROD> I suppose if someone can get the DOCS for Punter, we can add it. 

<[Brian] B.OUTZEN> I have been looking for specs on Punter; if I do find them I will upload them to the L&L SYSOPs' board if you like. <[ Dave_E ] DDELY> I've got the Punter specs. Where should I send them? 

<[Lance] L.L.PROD> You send them to me in mail, or better yet, upload to my BBS, 303-420-3568. We are PC Pursuit-able. I don't think the Phone Company would let you call a modem collect. 

<[Brian] B.OUTZEN> What new mods and/or corrections will be in the 1.4 update (GBBS Pro)? 

<[Lance] L.L.PROD> 1.4 will be mostly fixes to ACOS. The configuration program has been rewritten to allow easier configuration and SuperTAC is shipping with it. 

<[Brian] B.OUTZEN> What exactly is ProLink? Is there a GBBS equivalent? 

<[Lance] L.L.PROD> ProLink is our new Network for MultiPro (like ProLine). No there is not a GBBS equivalent. 

<[Brian] B.OUTZEN> Never heard of ProLine either. I take it this is for the networking of sub-boards (aka Fidonet) or is this a conference-type function? 

<[Lance] L.L.PROD> ProLink will allow message & mail to be sent all over the country by calling you local MultiPro/ProLink site. 

<[Tyler] A2.TYLER> Interesting. 

<[Lance] L.L.PROD> We will also have a tie into the UUCP network for Net-feeds, etc. 

<[Brian] B.OUTZEN> As you may well know, Taran (a GBBS Pro SYSOP) has been frantically searching for out-dialing to automate networked sub-boards. Any comment or advice on this? 

<[Lance] L.L.PROD> Out-dial is built into MultiPro. GBBS is just not able to do it cleanly, without major changes. I would suggest he get MultiPro and then ProLink when it's done. Existing GBBS SYSOPs will be able to update for 50% (if they are in the database of existing owners). 

<[Mike] TBC> Can you give us an idea of what overlays are about? Do they act like functions and if so what kind, number (limitations) of parms are passed to them? Or do they work in similar fashion to programs that are XQUIT/XQUIT.GS savvy? 

<[Lance] L.L.PROD> Mike, at this time we have not ironed out all the details about the overlays. The Andys are fighting about what they should do. Overlays are like editors, transfer protocols, or anything else you could think of. The limit is imagination. 

<[Mike] TBC> Rephrasing: Are overlays more like new environments, or extensions to existing compiled segments? 

<[Lance] L.L.PROD> Extensions if you talk to Andy Wells, new environments if you talk to Andy Nicholas, both if you ask me. 

<[Mike] TBC> What are they written in, assembly or ACOS? 

<[Lance] L.L.PROD> Mike, sorry that's all I can say at this time. They are in Assembly. 

<[John Huston] J.HUSTON> Let me say that I like GBBS Pro and the way it works. Lance can you tell me if I don't want to run a multi-line system what advantages MultiPro would have for me? 

<[Lance] L.L.PROD> If you have any desire to have ProLink you will have to RUN MultiPro, and also, MultiPro has all the bells and whistles of the latest and greatest in BBSs. 

<[John Huston] J.HUSTON> Will it have arrays? 

<[Lance] L.L.PROD> Not in it's first release revision, but maybe down the line after the fallout settles. 

<[John Huston] J.HUSTON> Great! 

<[ Eric ] A2PRO.ERIC> Quick question, for trivia purposes more than anything else. What assembler was GBBS written with? 

<[Lance] L.L.PROD> Merlin - 8/16. 

<[ Eric ] A2PRO.ERIC> Thanks. GREAT assembler. 

<[Bob] PROTREE> Originally ALDS, wasn't it? An old CP/M assembler 

<[Lance] L.L.PROD> Bob, yes, Greg did it in ALDS originally. It only took me a year and a half to get it to assemble under something modern. 

<[Bob] PROTREE> I know Greg sort of liked that beast. I personally never cared for it, but different strokes for different folks. 

<[Lance] L.L.PROD> He uses his own Assembler for ProTerm now. 

<[Jerry] J.KINDALL> Is it worse than the Pascal assembler, Bob? 

<[Bob] PROTREE> Yes. 

<[Mike] TBC> Guess it's like those folks who do their GS work in MPW-cross now. 

<[Lane] L.ROATH> I didn't know Greg had an assembler. Is it any good? 

<[Lance] L.L.PROD> It's his own private assembler. It has the features he wanted. That was the reason for the delay with Proterm 2.0, but I don't want to talk about GREG. 

<[Lane] L.ROATH> Ok, just curious, being a programmer and all. I got here late, so I would appreciate a brief on MultiPro, the cost, the Upgrade for GBBS Pro owners, and the machine requirements! 

<[Lance] L.L.PROD> Lane, MultiPro is out newest multi-line/multi-system BBS program supporting full screen editors and terminal emulation (any), along with the most popular transfer protocols. Retail price is slated for $79.95 for the basic MultiPro and overlays ranging from $19.99 to $39.95. Existing registered GBBS SYSOPs can upgrade for 50%. At present, it does require 1 CPU for each line. 

<[Lane] L.ROATH> Got to love those x9.9x prices! 

<[Lance] L.L.PROD> We are striving for the best BBS software at reasonable prices. 

<[Lane] L.ROATH> Minimum CPU requirements? 

<[Lance] L.L.PROD> Minimum CPU is 128 K, 65C02, Mousetext is not required, but makes PT special easier to see. If all goes well, it should be available in Jan '89 and all registered SYSOPs will be notified by mail. The only other thing is MASS STORAGE (almost forgot that). 

<[Lane] L.ROATH> Hard drive or 3.5? 

<[Lance] L.L.PROD> The MASS STORAGE device must be able to have multiple CPUs hooked up to it for multi-line. Single line could use either 3.5 or HD. 

<[Tyler] A2.TYLER> Are you implying a file server, Lance? 

<[Lance] L.L.PROD> Tyler, no, as long as you can hook up more then one computer to it. We have a device that handles the overhead. 

<[Lane] L.ROATH> Thanks, lastly, it was UpTime (surprised you remember!), but the board is registered in my name and I took all copies with me. What's the upgrade to 1.4 cost, and will it solve my Sider ][ and Rana Drive problems? (Also, it has been 2 years since I ran my PERSONAL version of the software.) 

<[Lance] L.L.PROD> Lane, I think there is a company that makes a card for the Sider that allows multiple CPUs. The 1.4 upgrade has not been set. Most likely it will be under $30.00. 

<[Brian] B.OUTZEN> Okay, on the "requires a hard disk that can handle multiple CPUs," do you mean that you have to have more than one computer to have more than one line? (Also, would a SCSI drive fit in this category?) 

<[Tyler] A2.TYLER> Maximum of 2 computers on a SCSI system. 

<[Lance] L.L.PROD> Brian, that's exactly what I have been saying, one CPU for each line (as of now). Yes, SCSI is the right type. Tyler, no, maximum of 8. 

<[Tyler] A2.TYLER> Show me a computer that does not terminate the SCSI chain, Lance. A SCSI card has only one connector. 

<[Lance] L.L.PROD> Tyler, using CMS SCSI cards you can have 8. They have two connectors on each card (forms a BUS). 

<[Tyler] A2.TYLER> Well, there goes the GS/OS compatibility! 

<[Lance] L.L.PROD> MultiPro is not running under GS/OS. 

<[Tyler] A2.TYLER> And you have prevented it from also. 

<[Lance] L.L.PROD> The other choice is to run AppleShare and tie up a MAC. 

<[Brian] B.OUTZEN> Okay, also, on the multi-system (networking); I am running an RPG Segment in my BBS (a separate sub-board and Email system all in itself; it also has two special files for game use, and the equivalent of a Gfile section). Would it be difficult to include such an item into the network, while keeping it separate from the usual sub-board system? 

<[Lance] L.L.PROD> Brian, yes, that would not be a problem. 

<[Brian] B.OUTZEN> Good; it looks like MultiPro should be helpful for me. The reason I'd asked about the multiple computer/multiple line setup before is I'm used to the Diversi-Dial's multi-lines and a local IBM board which has multiple lines, but all run off the same computer. Any comment? 

<[Lance] L.L.PROD> We are trying to figure out a way to do it one CPU, but the speed limits the options. (Diversi-Dial is only 300 baud.) 

<[Lane] L.ROATH> Just get into hardware development, Lance! <[ Eric ] A2PRO.ERIC> Yeah! 

<[Lance] L.L.PROD> Lane, I am, whether I want to or not. 

<[Brian] B.OUTZEN> "Diversification, boy! That's where the money is! >harumph<" 

<[Lance] L.L.PROD> Yeah, All I need is $1,000,000 and I can start a BBS on a card company! Any investors. 

<[Brian] B.OUTZEN> Will there be a conference mode with multi-line? 

<[Lance] L.L.PROD> Brian, Yes, but not in the initial release, that's going to take some hardware. 

<[Brian] B.OUTZEN> Thanks. 

<[Mike] TBC> Are there any license terms we should know about (hopefully as simple as "portions of this software copyright...") and how do we go about purchasing the environment? 

<[Lance] L.L.PROD> The licensing of the product is the BASIC. You don't own it, you lease it; and that lease can be revoked at any time for any reason (copyright infringement, for example). As far as the type of license, we hold the rights to any mods/overlays written for it and will encourage the FREE distribution of mods. 

<[Bob] PROTREE> Referencing my single computer: Everyone wants a multi-line single computer; however, until Apple or third party developers realize the wisdom to using DMA, or create modems that do their own cashing/user interface it isn't likely. Now for my question. Is the networking system, a game port disk access arbitrator, which prevents more than one computer from doing a read/write collision to the drive? The system is simple. A computer has to request and be granted access, which is all easily done via the game port, once access is granted, no one else has the HD, until, the computer releases it. The arbitrator then looks to see if any one else wants it. This can all be accomplished, with 74ls151, 74ls138, and a couple ne555, one ne556, some pull up resistors, a timing resistor and caps. 

<[Lance] L.L.PROD> Yes Bob, you've hit it right on the head. That's the secret. 

<[Bob] PROTREE> I see. 

<[Lurch] E.KLOEPPEL> Lance, you said earlier that MultiPro doesn't run under GS/OS. Do you have plans to make it do so, or run under something similar (16 bit)? 

<[Lance] L.L.PROD> Lurch, we are considering a GS/OS version, but SHR at 9600 baud is SLOW! We need a faster GS (hint, hint)! 

<[Lurch] E.KLOEPPEL> Ok, do you foresee any problems with running under something like the RocketChip? 

<[Lance] L.L.PROD> Lurch, no I do not anticipate any problems. The ZIP chip works just fine. I have asked Bits & Pieces for a couple, as soon as they can get me one. 

<[Ron] MICOL.SYSTEM> here is no law that states GS/OS software must be SHR. 

<[Lance] L.L.PROD> Ron, I have it on good words that SHR would be better (as far as Apple is concerned)! 

<[Ron] MICOL.SYSTEM> Of course SHR would be better, but not realistic for your use. 

<[Tyler] A2.TYLER> Ron, you need to ad YET. 

<[ Eric ] A2PRO.ERIC> Will overlays be available in MultiPro? 

<[Lance] L.L.PROD> Eric, yes overlays will be available in MultiPro. 

<[Ron] MICOL.SYSTEM> Ok, since you were talking about HD sharing, I don't see any reason to use special hardware. Since ProDOS supports read and write file attributes, it would be a simple matter to set the attributes and check them. This way one user wouldn't have to wait for the other user to finish his/her operation. 

<[Bob] PROTREE> Ron, ProDOS, doesn't support VTOC updating properly to accommodate that, which is the problem. 

<[Lance] L.L.PROD> True, that would work, only it does not prevent the simultaneous read and/or write, and that's the problem. 

<[Ron] MICOL.SYSTEM> If one user is reading one file and another is reading a separate file, there would be no problem. 

<[ Eric ] A2PRO.ERIC> Not if both people are updating file attributes at the same time! 

<[Lance] L.L.PROD> Yes there would. Have you ever seen ProDOS blow up a Directory! 

<[Bob] PROTREE> Read only isn't a problem, but two users writing at the same time is the killer. 

<[Lance] L.L.PROD> Bob, on a Apple SCSI reading is a problem. Only CMS has arbitration. 

<[Ron] MICOL.SYSTEM> If somebody is trying to open a file for whatever reason, and the file has the write attribute set, the person must... 

<[Bob] PROTREE> Ron, both systems think the same blocks are free at the same time. 

<[Ron] MICOL.SYSTEM> Wait. If properly done, the chances of both people attempting to set the attributes of both files at one time is probably 1/1000000. 

<[Bob] PROTREE> Explain properly, other than rewriting ProDOS? 

<[Lance] L.L.PROD> Would you want to take the chance? <[Tyler] A2.TYLER> I wouldn't. It would be too costly. 

<[Lance] L.L.PROD> I don't know about you, but I'm not fond of repairing directories. 

<[ Eric ] A2PRO.ERIC> How many disk operations in a day during normal BBS operation? WAY TOO MANY! 

<[Ron] MICOL.SYSTEM> Just have a standard routine that is called, whenever access to a file is requested. That routine looks at the file, and if it is clear (ie. no attributes set) it sets them right away. 

<[Lance] L.L.PROD> Ron, you are missing the point. You cannot have simultaneous READS, anywhere. The drives choke! 

<[Tyler] A2.TYLER> And when the drives choke, software crash is eminent. 

<[Ron] MICOL.SYSTEM> If the hard drive is made to handle multi-users, there should be no problem. My old clunker Sunol even does it! 

<[Lance] L.L.PROD> And what if both CPUs grab the information at the same time (or 5 msec. after). They both see it's clear and write to it. Crash, bang, boom! 

<[Bob] PROTREE> The problem is ProDOS only allocates used blocks. The main VTOC shows those as marked. Now, it doesn't matter if it isn't the same file, ProDOS holds the last VTOC it read in memory, thus, two people writing will use the same blocks, and thus, over-write each other. 

<[Lance] L.L.PROD> Your drive is built to handle multi-user; some are not. 

<[Ron] MICOL.SYSTEM> If properly written, there would only be a few cycles between the checking and setting of file attributes. Obviously, if somebody's hard drive cant handle it, they are SOL. 

<[Tyler] A2.TYLER> I guess I am SOL. 

<[Ron] MICOL.SYSTEM> Most SCSIs are built to handle it. Anybody who wants to run a multi-line system probably has the money for a half decent drive. 

<[Lance] L.L.PROD> We can't make the assumption that everyone has a drive that handles the Multi-user, so that's the reason for the hardware. 

<[Bob] PROTREE> Sorry Ron, I worked on the problem for several months, on a specific HD server. That is somewhat different. But, mere setting file attributes has nothing to do with the main VTOC. 

<[Lance] L.L.PROD> Apple SCSI cards do not handle it. 

<[Tyler] A2.TYLER> You are calling Apple's drives not half decent. I see my HD80SC as fully useful.

 <[Ron] MICOL.SYSTEM> All I'm saying is that it wouldn't be too difficult to do it through ProDOS with no hardware. As for VTOC, you would ask ProDOS to do a direct read of the files attributes. 

<[Mike] TBC> Guess we're talking network-theory now. 

<[Bob] PROTREE> The VTOC is not file attributes, and has no connection with it. 

<[Todd] T.LARASON> How do I make sure I'm registered, so that I get the upgrade information? 

<[Lance] L.L.PROD> Todd, did you return a registration card, and what's your serial #? I'll check. 

<[Todd] T.LARASON> I'm pretty sure I returned it, but sometimes I forget things like that. My # is 133,356. 

<[Lance] L.L.PROD> Yup, you're registered. 

<[ Eric ] A2PRO.ERIC> Lance, how often do you check your GEnie mailbox? 

<[Lance] L.L.PROD> Eric, at least 3 or 4 times a week. 

<[Todd] T.LARASON> Why was pa$ and ph$ put in RAM instead of normal strings? 

<[Lance] L.L.PROD> Todd, so it could be saved in the user file easier, write RAM instead of print pa$, ph$. 

<[Todd] T.LARASON> Ok, but moving them to strings frees up 20 precious bytes for flags, etc. 

<[Lance] L.L.PROD> Maybe, if you need more flags, increase the RAM allocation. 

<[Todd] T.LARASON> Yeah, I've done that. When you have the flags to use, it's amazing the uses you come up for them. 

<[Lance] L.L.PROD> Yeah, handy little buggers aren't they? 

<[Ron] MICOL.SYSTEM> If you dont mind answering, how many GBBS systems have been sold total? 

<[Lance] L.L.PROD> Ron, over 4,000 shipped over 1,100 registered. 

<[Tyler] A2.TYLER> Over 10,000 pirated. 

<[Lance] L.L.PROD> It's true! 

<[Ron] MICOL.SYSTEM> Impressive. I didn't think there was a market for more than 2,000 (in sales, not including pirates). 

<[Mark] A2.MARK.C> Are you giving any thought to creating a Desktop style BBS system, in line with the push by Apple to encourage Apple Interface type stuff. 

<[Lance] L.L.PROD> Mark, yes. 

<[Gerry] ZOFT> Lance, for Mark and I (and whoever may have come late) what are the features of the "new" GBBS (new features, that is)? 

<[Lance] L.L.PROD> MultiPro is a new multiuser/multi-system BBS featuring full screen editors and terminal emulations, and full protocol support. 

<[Gerry] ZOFT> Are you using the AppleTalk networking scheme, Lance? 

<[Lance] L.L.PROD> It uses our own methods for networking the CPUs. 

<[Tyler] A2.TYLER> Seeing no more questions, Lance, do you have any closing comments? 

<[Lance] L.L.PROD> Just to sum it up, thank you Tyler for having me. I just want to say that you can always look to L&L Productions for quality BBS software. We are always open to ideas and concepts. I'll let Tyler know when MultiPro is available. I think that's about it; thanks again for coming. 

<[Tyler] A2.TYLER> How can people get in touch with you to order? 

<[Lance] L.L.PROD> Our address is L&L Productions, PO BOX 5354, Arvada, CO 80005, telephone 303-420-3156 voice, 303-420-3568 modem. 

<[Tyler] A2.TYLER> I would like to thank Lance Taylor-Warren for being our guest tonight on GEnie. Next week, Steve Carlton of Claris Corporation will be here to talk about AppleWorks GS. Until then, stay well and have fun on GEnie. 

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